Nationalism - A Good or Bad Idea?

Talking Points:

1. Is nationalism just an updated version of tribalism, or going back to our primate cousins, something like chimpanzee bands with their vicious fights among alpha males?

2. Does nationalism require an enemy to establish the cohesion of the state?

3. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" [Dr Samuel Johnston, 1775]. Did he have an a real insight on this? What would the evidence be? btw Does patriotism = nationalism?

4. What does a nation owe its citizens? What level of sacrifice do citizens owe the nation? Is the social contract real or fake?

5. How come god(s) (or an ideology like communism) somehow come to be cheering for the victory of both sides in every war or contest?

6. Australia no longer has anything like a single ethnic identity. What can bind the many cultural origins of Australians into some sense single sense of national identity - or is that now impossible? Does it matter?

7. How has history been used and misused to bolster the credentials of nationalist groups? Examples?

8. How close are noisy peacetime political demonstrations about 'patriotism / nationalism to the grim determination to fight off invaders in a real war? Invading armies usually have at least one huge disadvantage. The local people, whatever their internal differences, will usually fight to the death to beat off the invading forces. Recently we have seen this in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and now Ukraine.

9. How useful is the idea of "a country"? The countries of the Americas, Africa, Oceania (including Australia & NZ) have all been inventions by European colonial administrators mostly in the last 300 years (which is a very short time in history). European countries themselves were only defined by the Peace of Westphalia (1648). Chinese claim "5000 years of history" but as in the rest of the world, that only had meaning to a tiny elite. Only a small fraction of people could read or write, and never traveled beyond local villages.

10. How should national governments manage transnational companies and international transfers of people, knowledge, money and goods? Many companies and organizations are now trans-national. They are very hard to tax or control. The career members of these organizations often have loyalty to a company before loyalty to any country. Developing countries often lose their best people to organizations like this.

Extra Reading

Poly Matters (2019) "Why Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet" Youtube @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ310om9JCY . [Thor, comment: "This turns out to be a good socio-political analysis of the country and explains a lot. I had had no idea that Kazakhstan was such a soup of nationalities and languages, with Kazakhs only about 40% of their own population. So poly-ethnicity is not unique to new-world countries like Australia and USA. ]

Anand Giridharadas (Jan. 20, 2014) "Balancing Private and Public Needs - Here is a working definition of “developing country”: a place where people trust the sushi and distrust the tap water". New York Times @ https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/world/americas/balancing-private-and-public-needs.html

Maria Alvarez (10 April 2021) "Are Covid passports a threat to liberty? It depends on how you define freedom - The pandemic is once again causing governments to pit incompatible ideas of freedom against each other". The Guardian @ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/10/covid-passports-threat-to-liberty-freedom-pandemic

Thor May (2016) "Politics and Politicians : a volatile mix?" The Passionate Skeptic website @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/Politicians.htm [Quote: "Politics is like medicine: sometimes useful, even necessary, in small amounts, but fatal if taken in an overdose. Politicians can be a useful species but are prone to going feral. Democracies often elect either mediocrities or confidence tricksters because large numbers of electors share similar qualities. In practical terms, is there a better way to manage national affairs?"]

Thor May (2014) "Multicultures – communities of familiar strangers". The Passionate Skeptic website @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/Multicultures.htm
[ Quote: "When a stranger asks “what do you do”, as he fishes for the right stereotype to pin on my chest as a mark of admiration or secret contempt, I am at a loss to answer. That is, I am a man of my age, a chameleon creature accustomed to slipping amongst a kaleidoscope of roles. This plurality of role plays does not mean that I am "values free". I don't care if you wear a hijab or burn incense in a Buddhist temple. I do care for a marker such as "above all, do no harm" - not always achievable perhaps, but at least a navigation beacon".]

Thor May (2014) "What will be the dominant ideologies of the 21st Century?". The Passionate Skeptic website @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/Ideology21stCentury2.htm [ Quote: "Ideologies are going to be with us forever. The question is how seriously the herd takes them, and who become the high priests for interpreting them to the unwashed masses. The 20th Century gave us some pretty horrible examples of ideologies used as vehicles for mass extinction while claiming to be vehicles for mass progress. There is no particular reason to expect that the 21st Century will be more enlightened in this regard amongst those people who always form the bulk of ideological foot soldiers. It is true that there are more formally educated people on the planet than ever before, and more available tools for critical thinking, especially in the online world. Yet it is also true that the tools for mass mobilization are more powerful than they have ever been, while their control passes with increasing rapidity to compromised governments, corporations and secretive elites. This secrecy makes a considered response to genuine threats especially difficult".]

Thor May (17 January 2012) "Anchluss or ANZAC? - A Solution for Taiwan". The Passionate Skeptic website @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/Anchluss-or%20-ANZAC-solution.htm [Quote: "What would be the consequences, to follow a crazy thought experiment, if the Peoples Republic of China were to formally renounce all claims to sovereignty over Taiwan? Well, at first there would be a very confused Chinese public in the PRC and a desperate need for some inspired domestic persuasion out of Beijing. However, once that contradiction had been finessed (they've had tougher knots to untie), my guess is that within a short time Taiwan would become China's best friend and ally. They have so much in common. A free Taiwan choosing between America and China? No contest. Of course they would choose China. Taiwan has already shown the world what its enterprise can achieve under conditions of great handicap. Give its people back their hope and spirit, then Taiwan would be the best little brother that China could ever wish for. China would win immense international respect and trust. It truly would be on the fast track in that new Great Game, the contest for competence". ]

Mark Edele (Professor Edel is author of 5 books on Soviet history) (28 June 2023) "History sheds little light on Yevgeny Prigozhin affair". The Australian @ https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/history-sheds-little-light-on-yevgeny-prigozhin-affair/news-story/e4743e2c5b1d67106c3c2a7120775d6c?amp [Quote: When Putin became President in 2000, Russia barely had a state worthy of the name: an entity with a monopoly of legitimate violence over a given territory. The professionals of violence – the police, KGB agents, soldiers – were corrupt or had left state service and worked as private security for the new capitalists. With no state to enforce contracts, these violent entrepreneurs needed muscle to make sure agreements would be honoured by their business partners. The result was an unsettling atmosphere of violence. .. At the same time, Russia was intellectually freer than it had ever been since 1917. Everybody could say, write and publish whatever they wanted, not least about history. To Putin, this cacophony of voices was part of the same malaise: a lack of direction of society by the state, a symptom of decay. ... Putin rebuilt a national security state, ended the violence on the streets, forced the oligarchs and smaller mafiosi to acknowledge the state as the ultimate arbiter of disputes, broke up independent media, reasserted a central line in historical interpretation and installed himself as the undisputed head of a reinvigorated Russian state. The opposition was sidelined and, where necessary, murdered. .. Paradoxically, however, he did the opposite in the military sphere, often for short-term tactical reasons. Besides regular armed forces, there’s the National Guard, independent from the army, tasked with putting down domestic unrest and protecting borders. And there are private military companies, technically illegal but allowed to flourish."

Thor May (17 September 2017) "A citizen of the world? .. of a country, a town? So what is a citizen anyway?". [Discussion topic with questions and links] The Passionate Skeptic website @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/DiscussionTopics/QESUB-QUESTIONS/CitizenOfTheWorld.html

Farrah Tomazin (July 7, 2023) "I’ve reported on gun violence in the US for more than a year and I just can’t get used to it". The Age @ https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/i-ve-reported-on-gun-violence-in-the-us-for-more-than-a-year-and-i-just-can-t-get-used-to-it-20230706-p5dm80.html [Quote: "The US celebrated its 247th birthday yesterday − and it sure knows how to put on a party. Across the country, millions of people commemorated the Fourth of July, marking the day in 1776 when the Declaration of Independence was adopted and America’s 13 original colonies separated from Great Britain. ... Sadly, though, for yet another consecutive year, the Fourth of July long weekend was marred by bloodshed, with dozens of people killed or injured by gun violence. .. figures from the Gun Violence Archive show that there have been 21,928 firearm related deaths in the US this year alone, of which at least 355 are classified as mass shootings (defined as four or more people shot, not including the gunman)."

Michael Harriot (30 Dec 2021) "‘Patriots’ are undermining American democracy - The people who stormed the US Capitol on 6 January don’t understand that nationalism is not the same as patriotism." The Guardian @ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/30/patriots-are-undermining-american-democracy [Quote: "This historically inaccurate, mathematically incorrect caricature of patriotism is white nationalism wrapped in a star-spangled banner. If the American empire ever falls – and it will – we can thank the patriots for the demise of democracy. Ultimately, these fanatical jingoists are the least patriotic people in America. They detest democracy and loathe any prospect of a more perfect union. They have pledged their allegiance to the flag, but not the republic for which it stands. Patriotism as performance is their only protection because a country that provides liberty and justice for all is too unbearable a thought. They’d rather kill it first."]

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Nationalism - A Good or Bad Idea? (c) Thor May 2023

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